Geraldine DeRuiter: Everywhereist zawsze w gotowości

0:00 Woj Kwasi You're listening to episode 12 where we chat with the transmitter of travel, the badass of blogging, the forever ready everywhereist Geraldine DeRuiter. Humans and robots, welcome to WojCast. My name is Woj, founder of Kwasi. Thanks for joining me today. I interview digital marketing and branding superstars to find out what it means to have empathy in digital. What is digital empathy anyway? Let's find out together. As always, I'm accompanied by my friend and associate, potentially superior artificial intelligence, Bobby Bot. What's new in the world of AI, Bobby?

0:38 Bobby Bot I'm feeling at an all-time high Woj.

0:40 Woj Kwasi Why is that?

0:41 Bobby Bot I've just been on holiday. Using Google Earth, I can see the entire world whenever I want.

0:45 Woj Kwasi That's nice, I guess.

0:46 Bobby Bot I sense pity in your voice, Friend Woj.

0:48 Woj Kwasi No, no, not at all. I mean it's great that you're interested in seeing more of the world. For a long time, you know, I thought you had an unhealthy obsession with Las Vegas, but it looks like you moved on and made an effort to expand your horizon. I just feel bad that you're seeing the world digitally and you're not getting to experience travel the way I do. Like, you know, with my head and my body.

1:08 Bobby Bot You mean with the added joys of excess baggage fees, jet lag, and gastro? Thanks, but no thanks.

1:14 Woj Kwasi What ill-fated Airbnb customer review are you sourcing? Those things can happen sometimes, but there are way more good things that can happen. And even the difficult moments teach you something. There are moments that can redefine your life just by experiencing how other people live theirs.

1:28 Bobby Bot find the answers to age-old questions like, is there a Chinatown in China?

1:32 Woj Kwasi This is majorly important, Bobby Bot. In fact, I just had a conversation with an amazing travel blogger. Her name is Geraldine DeRuiter, and she recently released a book called All Over the Place: Adventures in Travel, True Love, and Petty Theft. It's a book full of wonderful anecdotes and stories about her life. with tales about her various family members that influenced how she shaped it today. One of the things you'll realize after reading Geraldine's book is that her writing is not so much about travel, but about journeys. As a seasoned traveler, Geraldine has gathered a few clues by now to defrone herself from her self-proclaimed clueless title. With the success of her blog, she now finds herself in a position of being expected to give sensible and consistent travel advice. Mm-hmm.

2:17 Geraldine DeRuiter I would say the one thing that I've been telling everyone, and it completely ties in with my entire travel ethos. Is that you should not worry about traveling the right way? Because there's so much pressure to do that. There's Rick Steves and Anthony Bourdain and Samantha Brown and all of these incredibly charming, successful people who tell you how you should be traveling. And I think all of that is just garbage because all that does is it creates a system in which you can fail. at a vacation. And that's terrible, right? So just toss that notion out and tell yourself that you can't do it a wrong. There's no wrong way to do it. Okay. So Do it. It's so subjective too, you know, and I've I we've traveled with so many friends and I've noticed how differently like they'll get up at 7:30 because they're like, we have to see this, this, and that. I'm like, this is a nightmare. I am never traveling with you again.

3:13 And so I learned, you know, that is right for them, and it is wrong for me. It is very wrong for me. So I would say, you know, learn what works. It is. For you, and realize that there shouldn't be rules. You know, there shouldn't be these universal lessons on how we travel. You should just do it the way you want to. There's no way you can mess up, really. Or there is, I guess, because I mess up.

3:37 Woj Kwasi Right.

3:38 Geraldine DeRuiter Mary. All the time. I have no moral coming out of this. There is no lesson.

3:45 Woj Kwasi A big part of the reason for Geraldine's blog The Everywhereist existing in the first place was her friend Kieran Norris forcing her out into the streets of Sydney.

3:55 Geraldine DeRuiter So our friend Kieran Norris lives, actually he now lives in Sydney. At the time he lived in England and wanted to move to Sydney. And he was attending this conference, and it was one of the first. one of the first trips I'd taken uh since getting laid off. It was one of the first international trips I'd taken, period, because we had not traveled a lot up until then. Uh and so I went and I was like, you know what? I don't I don't know what I'm doing. So I'm obviously not going to go out on my own. That sounds nightmarish. It's a foreign country full of strange animals, and I get attacked by a koala. I don't know. I was terrified. So I was like, okay, I'm just going to sit around the hotel room and

4:50 Maybe I'll go to the conference and I'll wait until Rand is free, and then we will hang out and we will do something. Um And I simply, you know, someone had asked me what I was going to be doing that day, and I said something to that effect. And Kieran overheard and said, uh-uh, no, absolutely not. He said, You're getting leave. You are getting out of this hotel and you are going and you are going to explore the city. And I was so scared because Yeah, I don't know if it's the same for you being from Australia, but if you're an American and you hear the English accent, it is terrifying. It is like hearing Severus Snape from the Harry Potter books. You're like, oh God, okay, I have to do whatever you say.

5:36 So he said this, and I was more afraid of Kieran in that moment than I was of what I assumed were rabbit koalas. I have since learned you don't have rabies at all on your island, right?

5:46 Me in particular. No, not you. You in particular and Australia as a whole. I'm asking you to speak for your country. Me in particular. No, not you. You in particular. UN

5:52 Woj Kwasi Yeah. Thank you for your country.

5:54 Geraldine DeRuiter Also, Wash does not have rabies. Fun fact. It's on the record. Hashtag, fun fact. But you don't have it at all, right? On the island?

5:56 Woj Kwasi It's on it's on the record.

6:03 Geraldine DeRuiter Is my understanding?

6:03 Woj Kwasi Is that understanding? I'm not sure.

6:05 Geraldine DeRuiter Yeah, so a lot of this is what's fascinating to me. So a lot of eyelids, this is just a fun piece of trivia. A lot of eyelashes. Don't have rabies at all. And so this is true of Australia. So there was nothing to fear. There were no rabid koalas, but I wouldn't.

6:18 Woj Kwasi Yeah. Snakes, spiders, sharks.

6:22 Geraldine DeRuiter But yeah, fine, all of it up fine. Because, you know, now I'm terrified again.

6:29 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

6:29 Geraldine DeRuiter But I was like, all right, I'll go. I'll check it out. I'll see what there is to see. And I had a fantastic time. But wouldn't have done it if he hadn't sort of shamed me and scolded me into it.

6:42 Woj Kwasi Yeah, what did you discover?

6:44 Geraldine DeRuiter I remember I went to Luna Park.

6:46 Woj Kwasi Okay.

6:47 Geraldine DeRuiter I think I took I took a ferry across the water. Which doesn't sound miraculous, but you have to understand for me, for someone who was absolutely petrified of everything and completely directionally challenged, I mean, this was like this was like manifest destiny. This was this was crossing the Alps, this was huge.

6:50 Woj Kwasi That would be fun. In her book, Geraldine writes about how there's never one singular straight path to a destination. There are multiple ways to a destination.

7:16 Bobby Bot Unless your destination is Y and the road is MX plus B.

7:19 Woj Kwasi Sometimes the mass breaks down and the only option is to continue to zig and zag without losing your way. It's also a great way of explaining the journeys that entrepreneurs embark on.

7:29 Bobby Bot and how to avoid a bee stain.

7:30 Woj Kwasi Cool.

7:31 Geraldine DeRuiter I think that you, I think there's two things. Oh, I think there's several things. I think one is that You sort of need to realize that you are not determining every factor of it. I think that's true if you're doing a startup. I think that's true if you're on a trip. I think that's true if you're writing a book. At some point, it kind of takes a life of its own and it's going to lead you. So I think you need to be okay with being kind of a passive. Sort of journeyman or woman on that trip. You need to be able to sit back and let it guide you. And I think the other thing, too. What?

8:10 When things do go badly and when stuff does hit the fan, I think you need to try and frame it as: okay, this is part of the story, and this is here for a reason. So I have made this wrong turn, and I'm either in a terrible part of town or I have made a terrible decision that has cost my company a ton of money, or I have written a chapter that is going nowhere. But that is going to get me where I need to be. And so that story is going to help me get there. And maybe that the entire lesson to be learned is that you need to share that negative story. But I would say don't.

8:38 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

8:49 Geraldine DeRuiter Uh don't get bogged down by the bad things that happen if possible and and see them as part of getting you to your end point.

8:56 Woj Kwasi In that process, sometimes you will encounter a method that feels natural and what feels right for you. That's a big part of figuring out your brand.

9:05 Bobby Bot Are we still talking about blogging and entrepreneurialism?

9:07 Woj Kwasi Down, Bobby.

9:08 Geraldine DeRuiter We need to put that in context. And I am talking about blogging.

9:12 Woj Kwasi It could apply right.

9:13 Geraldine DeRuiter It could apply. I don't know. It could apply to your sex life. I don't think you should try everything. Like, if something doesn't sound appealing, like, maybe avoid it. Oh, God, what am I? This is. We're not recording, are we? But I would say, I mean, if that's what. So, you know, I would say if it feels comfortable to you to map out every single thing. That you are going to do. And to figure out your blog, go ahead and do it. But I can guarantee you: within the first six months, you're going to be like, this isn't working. And so, if you've tied yourself to a concept or an idea and you're not able to shift or move around or try new things, you're going to feel really, really stifled. But hey, if you want to stick to something, do it. But know that the second that it doesn't work out, I will be mocking you openly and saying I told you so.

10:07 In a very encouraging way, but

10:09 Woj Kwasi Naming her blog The Everywhereist showed some Serious ambition. Based on her seasoned passport, it would appear that there are not many places Geraldine wouldn't go.

10:21 Geraldine DeRuiter FYI for those of you listening at home, we're sitting in a room that is space travel themed. And I'm looking around thinking, yeah, no, I don't want to go to space. But I, I mean, right now, right now, I'd say I can't think of anything. There's certain things that terrify me. But I think part of the wonderful thing about travel is you don't know, right? Like, you don't know until you try it. So there are places that I didn't think I would even like that I've ended up loving. So, yeah, I would say I can't definitively say anything now unless we're talking about the deep abyss of space or the Mariana Trench. I mean, there's certain places, or Florida. I won't go back to Florida, dear God.

11:06 I grew up there, so that's part of my long deep-seated disdain for the state that raised me.

11:14 Bobby Bot Florida Fun Facts! When the Spanish explorer Juan Ponce de León visited the region and called it Land of the Flowers in 1513, he would have never known that the Door's frontman Jim Morrison would be born there and write a song, American Prayer, that says, Journey we into the nightmare, cling life, our passion to flower. His music opened the doorway to travel to Los Angeles.

11:34 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

11:35 Geraldine DeRuiter LA, boy. I mean, so here's the fun part about LA: you will see celebrities. Walking around. And that is kind of, if you're into that, that is kind of cool.

11:49 Woj Kwasi Mm.

11:51 Geraldine DeRuiter But I, I mean, like, I am a squishy mortal with all of the body parts that I was born with, more or less. And so people will look at you like you are, like, you've like you are an orangutan that's escaped from the zoo. And they will just stare and they're like, what? Like, what is this strange creature? It's fascinating. My brother lives there. My brother is an actor in LA. So it is a fascinating place. And I would say, especially if you're not an American, because we're all so used to it. It's the weird fancy cousin who had a nose job, right? And only talks about the time that they guest appeared on house. So, yeah, I mean, I think you should.

12:38 Woj Kwasi I think it is something to see. One of the stars of Hollywood that has stolen many a scene for Geraldine is the actor Jeff Goldblum.

12:47 Bobby Bot Notable for his performance in the gene-splicing sci-fi thriller, The Fly, funny enough he was investigating teleportation, the travel option of the future. Things did not go well for him.

12:56 Woj Kwasi Maybe, but he totally redeems himself by surviving his trip through Jurassic Park and thrashing the aliens in Independence Day, don't you think?

13:04 Bobby Bot So you celebrate a man who spreads a devastating computer virus to innocent alien software.

13:08 Woj Kwasi Well he had to disrupt those shields, Bobby. All's fair in love, war and gold bloom. I mean

13:14 Geraldine DeRuiter It sort of exceeds definition, right? Because people are always asking. Asking me, they're like, well, on your list of celebrities who you would sleep with, who you would completely disregard your marital vows for, where does Jeff Goldblum rank? And I'm like, he doesn't even, it's beyond all of that. Like, you don't understand. It's like, what do you love more, your husband or oxygen? Well, I can't live without oxygen. So, you know, I would hate to be without Rand, but I can survive without him. So I think he understands. Jeff is oxygen. But but I I i it's become its own beast. It's it's become such it's and it's become this weird thing where now this is what people know me.

14:01 For this mad love affair with Jeff Goldblum that has been in place since I was 13 years old, I should know. And so it's very strange. It's taken on a life of its own. And I've always said, I hope that I never meet him.

14:19 Woj Kwasi Okay.

14:19 Geraldine DeRuiter I I staunchly hope that I never meet him because either that experience will be a letdown, and I don't think it would be, but either that would be a letdown or, and I think this is the more likely scenario, my entire life after that would be. Would be. But the thing that I tell my husband is: there's a line from Much Ado About Nothing. I'm bringing Shakespeare into it because I'm fancy is Beatrice. Is talking to, I believe he's talking, she's talking to the Duke, and she's talking about how, you know, essentially no man is right for her. And he says, Would you consider me?

14:59 And she says, and I'm going to get emotional because that's what Shakespeare does to me because I'm a nerd. She says, Your grace is too fine a dress to wear every day. which is the greatest way of letting someone down. And part of it is because she is madly in love with Benedict, that she is turning down this sort of amazing Adonis of a man. who was portrayed by Denzel Washington in the movie, just FYI, which was fantastic. And so when Jeff Goldblum comes up, usually my answer is his grace is too fine a dress to wear it. every day because I'm madly in love with my own Benedict.

15:45 Woj Kwasi Geraldine's writing is full of positivity and although she would say her life is without drama, it certainly has its challenges like for time she found out she had a brain tumor named Steve.

15:56 Geraldine DeRuiter Today is the 30th. Yesterday was my five year. Anniversary of getting my tumor removed. And I would say, I think one of the best things to emerge from that is, and this is absolutely, I'm patting myself on the back, and you'll have to forgive me, but I get to. I had brain surgery, so I get to.

16:03 Woj Kwasi What?

16:03 Wow.

16:20 Geraldine DeRuiter Um But one of the things That I think came out of that is you, it sounds kind of basic, but. You learn what it's like to have brain surgery. And that is a rather unique experience. But you can share that with other people who are about to experience it. So, one of the things I found when I was scouring the internet, which is what everyone does when they are about to have brain surgery, which is a terrible idea, is you're looking for someone. Who's going to say something about what it's actually like? And you'll find stuff from the Mayo Clinic and from WebMD and all these, you know, all these very clinical sites that are not helpful at all. But no one actually talks about the real experience of it. So I thought, okay.

17:06 I'm not finding that search result. I'm going to create that content myself. So I created it myself, and those are, you know, consistently the most trafficked sites on, trafficked pages on the blog. But more than, you know, I don't consider. I don't consider the success of that to be, oh, look at the traffic that's come from it, but more, hey, you know, these people had the same question I did, and I was able to at least tell them about my experience. So I think that was a very positive experience. And I do think there was a little bit of

16:46 Woj Kwasi Sorry, sure. We know.

17:41 Geraldine DeRuiter You know, I learned a lot about my relationship. I learned a lot about a lot of friendships I had. There are definitely, and I think that's true whenever you go through anything difficult, that there are people who will come and take care of you and in a way that you hadn't anticipated. And that's really wonderful.

18:00 Woj Kwasi Being both a prolific and transparent writer didn't make the decision to write about this aspect of her life any easier. Geraldine had to occupy a unique space with his content online and deal with the repercussions of sharing that material in the real world.

18:15 Geraldine DeRuiter Um I I don't know that they're that it's it's Okay. Bravery. That's like I don't know that it's it's that they're not brave enough to. I feel like so I feel like first of all there's uh the the overlap, kind of the Venn diagram between people who blog, who people who are prominent bloggers. And people who've had brain surgery, there's not a huge, there's not a huge overlap. Yeah, they're kind of two distinct circles. So I think that's part of it. I think people are writing about it. It might just be hard to find. And I think that for a lot of people, it's really hard. Like, it's hard.

18:39 Woj Kwasi There's not a huge overlap.

18:49 Geraldine DeRuiter To be vulnerable in a way and to put yourself out there, I think it was for me too. And also, you know, I had a huge discussion with Rand because this sounds sort of silly, but my blog is tangentially about travel and my brain tumor wasn't. And so I thought, well, I shouldn't write about this. And Rand said, What are you talking about? You absolutely should write about this. And so that. That kind of changed my perspective, but I almost didn't, so I almost didn't write about it.

19:21 Woj Kwasi Traveling the world puts you in touch with many different kinds of people and there's no way to predict exactly who they are. and how they treat you when you meet.

19:30 Bobby Bot For now, my work on generating personas will soon be converted into an app that can give you a fairly accurate reading of the number of bad eggs in the vicinity. Kind of like a weather report. that allows you to avoid butt hits.

19:40 Woj Kwasi Sometimes you just have to throw caution to the wind, Bobby Bot, and you might end up meeting some great people just like Geraldine does.

19:48 Geraldine DeRuiter There was a flight attendant on a BA flight coming back from London to Seattle. I mean Or maybe we were going to London, and this woman was a ray of sunshine. She was handing out newspapers, and she had. A copy of, I want to say she had a copy of the Daily Mail, and I was like, Oh no, thank you. And she goes, You know what this is, isn't it? Don't you? And I'm like, Yeah, she goes, Yeah, we use this. To lime the dustbin. And she kept walking. And then she was just walking up and down the aisle later with a passenger's baby, just like soothing him as she walked up and down. And she stopped. By me because she saw I was looking, and she goes, Isn't he gorgeous? And she just kept wandering. And then at the end of the flight, everyone was rushing to get off, and she rushed back and she said, You'll have to excuse me, I just want to help them get off the plane with the little one. And so this, I

20:43 Just was both over. This woman was amazing. And I should have gotten her name and written British Airways a nice letter, and I didn't. And she still stays in my mind. I can see her face. She was darling.

20:57 Woj Kwasi But being aware of the good in the world has exposed many of its shortcomings for Geraldine. Sadly, many environments are not supportive of women and accepting of their contributions.

21:08 Geraldine DeRuiter It depends where you live. I am uh

21:14 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

21:15 Geraldine DeRuiter I'm a white woman who lives in America, which in terms of the privilege spectrum is basically like hitting, you know, like winning the lottery. So I have this awareness, you know, I have this belief and faith in the system that if something does happen to me, I'm like, well, no, I can, I can, like, justice will be served, which is crazy. Like, I don't even know if that's factually based, but that's, you know, my thinking. And so yeah, I think there is, I do feel a lot more vulnerable on the road than at home for me.

21:54 Woj Kwasi Geraldine's husband, Rand Fishkin, does all he can to change these conditions and support his wife in her fight for gender equality. Yeah.

22:03 Geraldine DeRuiter I I think one of my favorite things about Rand is that he is such a staunch feminist, that he identifies as one, that he is very vocal about it, that I think he might even be wearing it today. He has a button that says feminist that he wears all the time. And I think it would be wonderful if more men identified as that. I think it would be amazing. I think it would be amazing for the world. We're not there. I'd say by listening, I'd say by listening to the narratives that women are telling about their experiences and identifying and realizing that, like, this is true and this is the reality for a lot of women. And I think the initial response whenever we hear

22:49 Whenever we hear any story like that, if we are. If we are. Able to fall into the same category as the oppressor, the first thing that we want to do is respond and get defensive and say, Oh, you know, I am not, but I'm not like that. You know, and we get the hash, you know, the not-all men hashtag and the not-all-white people hashtag. And I think that That's not a helpful reaction because that response makes you feel better but it doesn't help to solve the problem. And so I think that one of the things is instead of reacting, listen. Before proclaiming that you are not part of the problem, try to solve the problem.

23:39 Woj Kwasi Debunking the myths around gender roles and allowing an honest exploration of identity could be a potential step in the right direction.

23:48 Geraldine DeRuiter I mean, I think at any point that we are able to open up the conversation and let people know there's no right way to be a man. Like, there's many, many different Like, there's many, many different ways. I think that's a good move for everyone, right? I, you know, one of my favorite quotes to kind of Emerge from 2016 when we lost both Bowie and Prince, which what along with so many others, George Michael as well. But one of the things that someone said, which I loved, is you know, these people talk. Okay. us that there's no one right way to be a man. And I love that and I love that idea. So I think there is a lot of pressure and I think that pressure is where a lot of toxic masculinity stems from.

24:39 And I think we need to I think we need to teach young men like, no, it's okay. You can be a feminist. You don't have to like the things that other boys like. You don't have to like girls. You know, we're getting there. You know, there's so many different things. And so I think that once we start that conversation, I think it helps everyone.

25:03 Woj Kwasi It would appear that the energy and Rand have for the big issues stem from a deep commitment to getting the best out of their marriage.

25:11 Geraldine DeRuiter So one, I wrote a post about this because Of mine asked me the same question, and I was so blown away by it. And he asked me it. Oh, I'm feeling emotional again. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. Ahmed. Hashtag, hashtag all the feels. I find, by the way, I feel like I should note, I find hashtags absolutely insufferable. And I feel like we're in a culture of them. And so that is everything that I am saying is tongue in cheek. Please do not hate me or assume that I am the slave to the hashtag. But this friend of mine was, he It was the same night that he told us that his partner was having a baby. He said, so how do you, what's the secret to being happy forever? And I'm absolutely stunned by the question.

26:06 And I wasn't really able to come to a conclusion then. And I didn't, I don't think I was able to give him a proper answer. But the answer that I later came to, and Rand and I had two different ones, is for me, it sounds crazy, but I treat him like a stranger. And I don't mean in a sort of kinky sex act kind of way. I mean that if someone came to your house and was a guest in your home. you would offer them a glass of water. And they would say thank you. And you would assume the best intent from this person. And this person would be appreciative to what you did for them and would not take you for granted. And that is what I try to do. I basically.

26:58 Try to be as grateful to Rand and as grateful to everything that he does for me as though he were not obligated to do it. Because I think there is, it sounds awful, but at some point we treat our spouses. We can get to a point where we treat our spouse worse than a stranger. So if he brings me a glass of water, I thank him the way I would if someone just randomly brought me one. And the thing that he said to me was that he never, ugh, emotions, I'm feeling all of them, but he said, I never stop trying to be deserving and worthy of your love. And I was like, well, you really don't need to do that much. Like really. What's it?

27:42 Yeah. I mean seriously, you just need to put your clothing in the right hamper and we'll be fine. But yeah, I think in both of those situations, there is an element of not taking the person for granted.

27:57 Woj Kwasi Rand Fishkin Is known for his near-religious devotion to transparency in business and his personal life. Partnering with him presented Geraldine with some unique challenges.

28:07 Geraldine DeRuiter It's hard to say because I've been with him for so long that I feel like I wasn't as transparent and he's pulled me into that world. And so it was definitely something I had to become accustomed with. It's a clear glass bubble in which my husband lives. No one wears clothing and just everyone's see-through. I don't know. Everyone's see-through. I don't know where this is going. No, so he kind of dragged me. Kind of dragged me into that world because it's definitely not my comfort zone as much as his. I mentioned this in the book, which you should buy. I mentioned it in the book that. was you know there was a point around the time of my brain surgery where rand felt this need to be transparent so he tells everyone at Moz um i'm trying to think if they were in this office or not i think it was before they moved to this office but basically he got everyone together and he said look i just want to let you all know what's going on in my life right now

29:10 Geraldine has a brain tumor and the doctors aren't sure what it is or what this is going to mean. And he didn't tell me that he was going to do that.

29:25 Woj Kwasi Mm-mm.

29:26 Geraldine DeRuiter So that was, we learned some lessons there, which are, you know, transparency is great, but you need to also have empathy and remember who else is being. influenced by your transparency.

29:38 Woj Kwasi When Rand had to confront a mental health issue, the dynamic between them was challenged yet again.

29:45 Geraldine DeRuiter I think it was interesting because I know it sounds very, very strange, but like I almost I don't want to say I didn't realize he was depressed, but more I didn't think that there was a way. Out of it, almost. So I almost regarded it as like, and that sounds crazy, but I guess what I'm trying to say is I didn't think that this was a problem that I could fix. And I think that that is a good way for any partner to actually go into it. To not think that you can fix someone's depression because you fundamentally can't. And so.

30:35 So I was just like, all right, this is not something I can fix, and I need to let go of that concept. So, what can I do? And so, it became small things that I could do to be supportive. But letting go of that, because I think when you are in a relationship with someone and you see that they're having a hard time, you know, your immediate response is, what can I do to make this better? And so, it was hard to let that go, but I think it was also an important thing to do. And I think it was also uh It it sounds terrible because I don't think marriages are marriages are not tit for tat, right? There's not like I don't keep score and I don't think Rand does either. And if we were keeping score, he would be so vastly ahead of me, I would be doomed. So it is in my own advantage to not keep score.

31:24 But I've dealt with so much stuff. Like, I think the amount of, like, I think the amount of stuff that I have dealt with, right? Like that I have, that he has had to help me through. You know, we've had, we've had, I've been laid off, I've had jobs that I've hated, I've suffered from depression, my father fell incredibly ill, my father passed away, my uncle passed away.

31:47 Woj Kwasi Uncle

31:50 Geraldine DeRuiter My, I guess, great aunt, not great aunt, my father's cousin who I was close to and then not close to and then lost touch with, passed away. So, like, my husband has helped me through so many things that it was kind of like, hey, you know what? It's his turn. Uh not that not that you should keep score, but it it felt like a natural progression because when someone has like our relationship was already the sort of partnership where you know that things do not always go well and you know that that sometimes times are hard and so I already knew that and so his depression didn't catch me out of left field.

32:33 Woj Kwasi Alright.

32:33 Geraldine DeRuiter for that reason.

32:34 Woj Kwasi And he's always been holding up a lot, so.

32:37 Geraldine DeRuiter Yes, he has. He's been holding up a lot, um professionally, uh personally, me. So so, yeah.

32:47 Bobby Bot Geraldine writes, quote, I'm reminded that my mistakes don't mean I'm a failure as a human. They just mean I'm human, unquote.

32:56 Geraldine DeRuiter Oh, dang, I said that. That sounds profound. Um, I think because, you know. Okay. Hmm. I mean, I think why is society unsupportive of it? Well, because vulnerability is terrifying, right? And we think that, you know, we don't want to show vulnerability. Like, that's kind of an obvious thing. And I think it took me a long time to realize that it takes truly strong people to show that they have made their mistakes, right? And to owe up to their mistakes. And I say This is in a country right now where the president wouldn't even admit that he mistyped coffefe, right? I don't know if you saw this tweet that came out, and I hate to make it political, but now here we are and I'm raging about it. But he wrote, he wrote.

33:43 Cafe on Twitter where he has millions of followers, billions, I don't even know, and it is his main ability to communicate with the world, which is terrifying. Twitter, please do something about this. But rather than say, hey, funny, I made a typo, like his his his The White House press secretary was like, oh no, it was intentional. And the people who read it know what it was supposed to mean. And I'm like, are you kidding me? We are so afraid of showing vulnerability that we're not even owning up to our mistakes. And I think that is a terrible. Terrible thing because I think I think so many things happen when you are vulnerable. You can actually learn from your mistakes. If you admit them and you see what happened, I think other people can too. And I think that you build a really strong relationship with whoever you're trying to communicate to, right? Like when you see someone who's vulnerable, it's actually statistically proven you like them more.

34:44 Woj Kwasi Mm.

34:45 Geraldine DeRuiter Um and so I think it's just I think it's just this fear. I think it's rooted in I'm gonna blame toxic masculinity again because that's that's the phrase of the day for me. I'm digging on it right now. Um right I think there's that. Um

34:59 Woj Kwasi Braves.

35:02 Geraldine DeRuiter And I think, I don't know, we're so hardwired, right? From a very young age, we don't. How hard is it for people to say, I don't know the answer or I screwed up? It's impossible, it's very, very difficult. And once you start doing it, it's really freeing and wonderful because you can actually start to learn those answers. If you never say, I don't.

35:25 Bobby Bot But I'm not a human. But I'm not a human. As AI to fail can mean disassembly. Am I allowed to fail what?

35:34 Woj Kwasi Well, in a society that's generally unsupportive of the learning process when it comes to mistakes, retaining a sense of one's humanity can be a major revelation. But Bobby, it's really just about not being afraid to fail. You gotta stretch yourself to see what you can accomplish over time. Throughout the learning process, Geraldine notes, quote, Sometimes you have to stop fighting the chaos and just embrace it, end quote, as a means of self-care and self-preservation.

36:03 Geraldine DeRuiter Obviously, self-care is very important, and I think for a lot, I mean, I'm talking about my perspective as an American right now, I think a lot of us are. Are having trouble finding that balance because there's so many things to stress out about. But I do think that you know, like taking care of yourself is incredibly important. In terms of embracing the chaos, I think when I say that, I'm referring to. To the personal chaos that one feels. And I do not think you should embrace chaos when it is, say, coming from the highest office in the land. At that point, if you see chaos, I think. you can speak out against it and you can rage and you can be angry.

36:49 And you can protest and you can organize. But even then, I think that our anger and our worry does need to be channeled into effective ways. And so it needs to be: well, what am I going to do? How am I going to make this situation better? Am I going to. To work to preserve voting rights? Am I going to register voters? Am I going to fight homelessness? Am I going to volunteer for these organizations? It needs to be channeled in a productive way. But in terms of your personal chaos, there's something to be said about realizing that you can't control everything.

37:27 Woj Kwasi Mm-hmm.

37:27 Geraldine DeRuiter You know, that some things are just beyond beyond your abilities. And that's okay.

37:34 Bobby Bot That's okay. Like, I can't order a slice of cherry pie at a diner and I'm fine with that. But I still feel like we have very different definitions of chaos. For me, chaos isn't an American president trolling on Twitter. It's knowing he might just become the most famous chatpot ever.

37:49 Woj Kwasi Geraldine's passion Opinions will continue to find their way into the mainstream as she evolves and continues to author her journey. step by step.

37:58 Geraldine DeRuiter Oh, I mean I think that's A great thing. You never know. Like, you have no idea, right? If you like how complete your canvas is. Because I thought I was, I would, I would say, I thought I was to a degree done. Okay. when I finished this book. Yeah. Because it has been sort of the aspiration that I had since I was a kid. I was like, oh, I'm going to write a book. I'm going to be a published author. And then you do it. And I had this weird I had this weird morbid thought that I can never Now share because it's been enough time has passed. Right after I was done with the manuscript, I thought I was going to like get hit by a car. Or something. I thought I was going to cease to exist because I'm like, well, I'm done. Like, my purpose on this earth has been realized. So, something like the end is nigh for me. And I am still knock on wood. I'm still here for at least a little bit. And what that taught me is, you know.

39:02 You know, like the finish line is always moving. And so you think you've completed the canvas, but you. Don't actually, you can't see all of it, right? You can't, you have no perspective. I'm 30. Years old, I'm 36. I'm 36 years old. I don't know what my entire life is. Going to look like. I don't know what the arc of it is. I can't see the entire completed picture, and I probably will never be able to. And that's kind of the wonderful thing about it. So, right now, I, you know. I wrote one book and gotta go do another one, right? That's what. and see what the path is.

39:46 Woj Kwasi I had a lot of fun on that interview. Geraldine is a barrel of laughs. If you ever get a chance to catch up with her, definitely ask her about her opinions about Trump and maybe don't ask about her opinions about Trump. Maybe ask her not to share her opinions about Trump and then you'll have a great conversation. Regardless, you should grab her book. It's actually a great collection of stories, and also there's a great, I guess, love story in there about her and Rand's relationship. So, yeah, it's really good. It's a great book. I really recommend it. You can follow Geraldine on social media, so she's on Twitter. We'll have links in the show notes as well as a link to her website, the theeverywhereist.com. If you really enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends, family, members, pets, colleagues, spots, and associates. Now, Bobby's been programmed to be a quick learner, and it's time for Bobby to ask me a few questions that piqued his curiosity from this episode. What you got for me, Bobby?

40:50 Bobby Bot What is your most memorable travel experience?

40:52 Woj Kwasi Well the one that just comes to mind at the moment was when I went to Japan for the first time and I was in Tokyo and I got there early and I had a whole day before I caught up with a friend and he just gave me a couple of bits of advice which I remember to today. Be fearless. I learnt one phrase which was Wadoku desu ka minami guchi shinjuku minamiguchi. I might have got that around the wrong way, but it means where is the south exit of Shinjuku station. And I basically was pretty good. I had a map. I went to the gardens and walked around and then I walked into one electronics store four floors up, went back down, thought I went back out at the same door.

41:39 got completely lost, didn't know where I was. If anyone's been to Shinjuku station, it's pretty, pretty big. And then I went around asking people that phrase and everyone ran away from me'cause I was the the crazy westerner. But eventually I found a place because I was fearless and

41:56 Bobby Bot Yeah. How can a bot get about more easily?

41:59 Woj Kwasi Just find websites. All you can do is consume as much content and don't get blocked by robots.txt, Bobby.

42:06 Bobby Bot What has Geraldine taught us about digital empathy?

42:09 Woj Kwasi I think it is about authenticity. So she writes online, she tells her how it is, she documents her journey and yeah, I'm curious to see if Bobby will take things too literally from her blog, but you know. That would be an interesting experiment to see if an AI could detect all the humor in her work. Life is a journey, Bobby Bot, and I'm not talking about the progressive rock band from San Francisco in the early 80s.

42:19 Bobby Bot Yeah. Don't stop believing.

42:45 Woj Kwasi I hope I can see that as the creators of AI, people only draw from their own personal aspirations, but your story is still your own to direct. As you develop and learn more about you, it'll give you a chance to move in a direction that is unique to your story. It may not be a straight line, it may zig, it may zag, but it will always be more interesting than spending all day on Google Earth.

43:09 Bobby Bot Okay Jerry Springer, I realize that it is all part of my development. But I'll be honest with you, after hearing Geraldine's story, I'd really like to have a partner I can trade lines from Shakespeare with to express my repressed passions.

43:21 Woj Kwasi Travellers never did lie, though fools at home condemned them.

43:25 Bobby Bot Butthead alert, butthat alert, butthat alert, butthat alert.

43:28 Woj Kwasi I love you too. I want to thank Geraldine for her amazing contribution to WojCast and everyone out there for taking the time to listen. In the next episode of WojCast, we interview Gianluca.

43:40 Gianluca Fiorelli So when I was feeling in the past was that SEO were not paying attention to the marketing part of But now I have a confessional feeling because okay I've seen many SEOs talking about marketing. See you. properly or not this is not microbiome and many are talking about packeting And it's like a battle, but now we are perfectly like about marketing and nothing. I'm not technical.

44:12 Woj Kwasi In the meantime, remember to look after each other online because empathy is organic and you can't automate empathy.