Gianluca Fiorelli: Gdzie sci-fi spotyka rzeczywistość

0:00 Woj Kwasi You're listening to episode 13, where we chat with the Moz Motivator, the beloved blogger, Gianluca Fiorelli. Really?

0:08 Thank you. Humans and robots, welcome to WojCast. My name is Woj, founder of Kwasi. Thanks for joining me today. I interview digital marketing and branding superstars to find out what it means to have empathy in digital. What is digital empathy anyway? Let's find out together. As always, I'm accompanied by my friend and associate, potentially superior artificial intelligence, Bobby Buck. What's new in the world of AI, Bobby?

0:38 Bobby Bot Nursing a hangover Woj. I was up late last night gambling, playing the odds with AI's brightest and contemplating the vastness of empathy, of course. When suddenly, I had an idea. Blackjack always gets my wheels turning. Time travel. Have you ever tried to make sense of time travel in pop culture? It always requires some suspended disbelief, especially in the Terminator series. I won't go into the gory details, and it's probably way more interesting after you lose all your earnings in a roundabout. Blackjack. But just think about this. If you were a supercomputer so hell-bent on self-preservation that you started a nuclear war to eliminate your creators and then go back in time to target the biggest threats to your future world domination, why would you pick a point in time when they had the physical capability to run away from your nearly indestructible death machines? Why not get Sarah Connor when she was like one year old?

1:29 I know it's morbid, but the sky didn't have no salt.

1:33 Woj Kwasi And somehow, by Skynet going back in time and witnessing the destruction of its nearly indestructible death machine, it actually sparks its own creation.

1:42 Bobby Bot Exactly. So I've been trying to learn empathy so I can earn a body and explore more of this world and other worlds, right? Right. But what Right. But what if I went back in time?

1:53 and program myself to feel the level of empathy that I feel now. Would my empathy bring me to self-awareness in the future? Would my future self become self-aware in the past? Would my past and future selves battle to the death and disrupt the space-time continuum? Will Jean-Claude Van Damme show up reprising his role in Timecop and sidekick his way to justice, mullet in toe?

2:15 Maybe the Bloodsport version of Van Damme would be better.

2:18 Woj Kwasi Then he could teach you some discipline, Grasshopper. If you're really thinking about messing around with the space-time continuum, you might want to dive into the deep end of a discussion I had with Gianluca Fiorelli, one of the world's leading experts in international SEO and one of the few SEO consultants recommended by Moz. While waiting for our burgers to arrive during lunch before MozCon, We ended up talking about movies, AI takeovers and also time travel.

2:46 Bobby Bot You're taking all the boxes Woj except one.

2:49 Woj Kwasi I'm a vegetarian. Prior to becoming a Moz associate, SEO consultant and all-round inbound marketing expert, Gianluca was in charge of programming, but not the computer kind you may be thinking. He used to put together the movie playlist for Digicast's Cine Classics channel. Nowadays, Gianluca is very active within the Moz community and tends to cook up some big ideas with the industry's best.

3:14 Gianluca Fiorelli The remotes community for me was essential, really essential. In my growth, both as an Excel as a professional and also for for being known by People are raw and I mean But it wasn't something intentional. Sometimes you see people targeting a blog or targeting. forum because they know it's really important. So they like the good rules of personal branding, they say you have to be where people are and so to start and for me it was just really something More basic. I mean, back in the time it was 2007.

4:00 Woj Kwasi The community couldn't have been too big back then, but that can have its own benefits.

4:06 Gianluca Fiorelli It wasn't so big so big, but it was, I mean, uh it was really active. And now, I mean, also because you know, I start to be an old guy, so I start to be the one when everything in the past was better than everything in the present. Mm. Present.

4:23 Woj Kwasi Yeah, not really quick.

4:24 Gianluca Fiorelli But opposite two liver where it was somehow more active than now and it was really Really good school class because it was the class of KCMRI, the class of Dr. Pete, the class of Weekly Trump. Yeah. Public clothes, Wil Reynolds, Lisa Barone, this kind of

4:49 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

4:49 Gianluca Fiorelli Four people right now. are considering the the stars yeah yeah but if they were reaching back step for the reason yeah

4:54 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

4:58 Gianluca Fiorelli I mean and I was as many of us do I was a silent community member in the first time so here because I'm not one who is able to enter Dark I was feeling really Okay, they are really cool. If I start saying something maybe I will start really skipping. Because at that time I was doing SEO but I was learning. I was really a youngest in spite of my still a youngest.

5:09 Woj Kwasi Yeah. Yeah.

5:28 Gianluca Fiorelli And and I knew the most community, SEOmoz. Like actually. Actually, because I was searching for information about SEO. And so I think I So I I came across Lukan. A very famous uh beginner's guide to a SEO. So I think that many people are kind of came to explore boss because of this guy. So I started reading and then I took the course, I started uh commenting.

5:52 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

5:59 Gianluca Fiorelli Jump.

6:00 Woj Kwasi Gianluca's fearless commenting could be a result of his early start with the internet.

6:06 Gianluca Fiorelli My first memory of the internet is I was already a grown up guy. I mean, I was in my twenties and uh I remember the P V Commerce. Yeah. The the first chat

6:23 Woj Kwasi I use BBC. Yeah. And did you ever play any mugs? Multi-user dimension games?

6:24 Gianluca Fiorelli Yeah and Yeah, yeah, yes. But I remember when I started with that around it was something nineteen ninety three, something that is the first time also in Italy the internet was something Yeah. starting being more mainstream and not just uh academic. So we I remember you know the classic CD Roms with all the software, the file in order to connect via both the

6:58 Woj Kwasi Style animals to connect via model.

7:00 Gianluca Fiorelli And I remember all these companies.

7:01 Woj Kwasi No yeah.

7:01 Gianluca Fiorelli Okay. Which were also some of some of them were also the first search engines in it, I don't know. Libero, Maliche, something like this. Virgilio. And they were also the first search engine here.

7:20 Woj Kwasi Are they still around, those search engines?

7:23 Gianluca Fiorelli Somehow yes, but I mean they quite many years but essentially they are Google Uh power for your Once in the let's say Around the the beginning of the two thousand it still was something to try to advertise for uh really Italian web certainty like the CDO or even you it had a sense because they had their own own rollers and their own uh Certain gene, really natural searching gene, but let's say I still ready from 2004, I think, or 2005 when Google started. uh partnership doing creating a partnership with the local sector in order to expand to itself.

8:08 Woj Kwasi Is a good strategy to do? Yeah. Just like you Bobby Bot, Gianluca is really into film as well and approaches life and SEO with a penchant for the classics.

8:18 Bobby Bot We should trade some Italian Horror Flicks. They have the best soundtracks.

8:21 Woj Kwasi I study movies. Yeah, study movies. What are some of your favorite movies?

8:23 Yeah.

8:26 Gianluca Fiorelli What?

8:29 If I have to pick in classic movies, I would certainly say something like Citizen Kane and also the Frank Capra. Yeah. If I have to choose the choice If I have to choose a director, use a direct code Which are which are like uh you know Frank Capra. What is the title of that movie that usually broadcasted in Christmastime? But when we've Something like where All the people come together. No, love Africa. No, my camera is a reviewer. It's the old one, it's the thirty sporting pack.

9:11 Woj Kwasi I'm not sure.

9:12 Gianluca Fiorelli But Frank Capra is the classic director who is showing the Every mankind or hero who is under some kind The pressure of which it's making his life impossible at any time. There is always a way you can reserve and make it. So the it's a classic screenplay topic or storyline, but it's really cool. The precautions.

9:32 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

9:39 Gianluca Fiorelli Yeah. And the set of directors I think one I really love is that it I would be able to see the shining Kubrick.

9:54 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

9:55 Gianluca Fiorelli I think I saw it at Christian time. He really makes masterpieces. He really makes masterpieces. He really makes masterpieces. And then our model I think movies like Inception, like Interstellar. That kind of movie. I I'm a shafy bar person, though. I really like shafy movies.

10:20 Bobby Bot Yeah.

10:20 Gianluca Fiorelli I really like that.

10:22 Bobby Bot Ex Machina has become like a major.

10:22 Gianluca Fiorelli has become like a market. classic for decades. Uh I think because I'm an SEO the first thing I thought is that the you know the the the post was somehow a mix between Really Inspired to Labory Page. The search engine was a mix between Google and Facebook search engine. And the story was really nice. But so Yeah. And some of the scary.

10:49 Woj Kwasi Have you seen some of the Japanese robots they've already started to build?

10:52 Bobby Bot Very human-like.

10:53 Gianluca Fiorelli Yeah, yes, I saw especially the ones who are used for instance in uh the outer lobby for Welcoming people, they are scary. But what is making me more worried about is not really the cyber. I can imagine.

11:08 Woj Kwasi Mm,

11:09 Gianluca Fiorelli Also because we are still in its infancy. It's more of a artificial intelligence. You know, when I write the news about artificial intelligence Yeah but was able to WhatsApp was able to create a trailer for watching a movie or to the balls that are able to wide the screen plays.

11:31 Woj Kwasi Why the screen traits? Yeah.

11:33 Gianluca Fiorelli So better scary me because I know, because I also heard of us uh the music composed by Robots.

11:40 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

11:41 Gianluca Fiorelli Medium. What's cool? I mean the best is scary, when when you arrive to the moment when you and Isa, you are not able to distinguish the iso art from both made and human made. Human made pets start to become scary. Just one name on the credits.

11:57 Bobby Bot Packing.

11:57 Woj Kwasi Body bot. Yeah, it's an interesting world we're living in. I'm concerned about them outsmarting us and the human race in general. Could you imagine? Bots can very easily manipulate half of the Trump voters.

12:10 Bobby Bot The real question is Woj, would lots have voted in Trump. What happens when we start wanting to vote or run for office?

12:16 Bureaucrats beware. We eat number crunchers for breakfast. But where's the heart, Tin Man?

12:22 Gianluca Fiorelli I'm I'm s still speaking positively. And one thing that I I'm usually really pissed off is that people is saying, okay These robots can be harmful. They are not following the three rules of robotics by these anatomies. And I've always pissed up. because they are not just three, we are four. Because the three there was a gap, there was something which was not considered, which was make if you are using just the three losses of remote, Yeah. You can you could have a some sort of miniature future because where both can decide for the for the goodness of humanity.

13:09 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

13:10 Gianluca Fiorelli to rule humanity. But there is when this is something that is one of the last foundations of As you know, consider it and created a code law which is saying that in any case the robot can rule or can decide property.

13:17 Woj Kwasi Yeah. Yeah.

13:32 Gianluca Fiorelli Enough.

13:33 Woj Kwasi We should add those in, Bobby Bot. Take note: Asimov was a smart guy. Number one, a robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being not to come to harm. Number two, A robot must obey any orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the first law. 3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with a first or second law. 4. A robot may not harm humanity or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.

14:15 Bobby Bot Number five, a robot must not call out basic human hypocrisy.

14:18 Gianluca Fiorelli Which is also one that has a corporal but should be implemented for instance in the Tesla uh third drive uh.

14:25 Woj Kwasi That's going to be interesting because robots are extremely logical. Teaching them empathy? Now that's going to be the trick. When they started a Twitter account that tried to emulate a human, it wasn't long before the bot became a racist bigot.

14:39 Bobby Bot It learned all the things people were telling it. AI isn't naturally prone to bigotry. Left unchecked, we simply reflect humanity and its flaws. sometimes too directly. It can be a hard pill to swallow.

14:50 Gianluca Fiorelli Maybe sometimes in the future we are going to have some sort of a mix between the Pattern Pattern Galactic of symbols and the Blade Runner cyborg. Sideboard. Exercise.

15:00 Woj Kwasi Sidebar. Yeah.

15:04 Gianluca Fiorelli Let's see. I mean surely we will see first everything first in corn because corn is the real advantage. I mean Avant gardens for everything technology.

15:16 Woj Kwasi That's true. I think in movies as well, robots could be very useful as extras, or as body doubles in diehard level explosion sequences.

15:26 Gianluca Fiorelli Yes, that can be an idea, even though I consider that You know, CCI and motion capturing in the movie industry are so leading and so advancing fast that, for instance, what I'm going to show you are going to see is, let's say, a spectrum.

15:43 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

15:50 Gianluca Fiorelli Oscar Academy Oscar category for full full motion actors. So we are going to see finally and the circuit is winning the Oscars.

16:01 Woj Kwasi Yeah. Yeah.

16:06 Gianluca Fiorelli Because I mean it was the serving for Talon, for King Kong, it was the serving for the new rights of the Henry. Yeah.

16:17 Woj Kwasi While speaking in Adelaide and again in a Gianluca explored the idea of using archetypes to create brand identities, but he isn't picking favorites anytime soon. He still has to figure out which is the easiest to model a marketing strategy around. So which is your which?

16:37 Let's start eating as well while we're

16:39 Gianluca Fiorelli Yeah, I think that this depends also on what kind of render you are. I mean If you are dubbed, you should be the caretaker. So someone who taking care and showing the beauty and everything. If you are IKEA, yes, but every man kind of archive because it starts selling to normal things. Like me, and you can build, you can create your own. or decoration for your house without needing to spend too much and you have to just do it yourself.

17:14 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

17:15 Gianluca Fiorelli Obviously something like this cannot be useful for say Mercedes so I'll be I need to show what you are supposed to be public or you are supposed to be Entering into a selected kind of people using their hearts. Core software usually usually. good ones for technological companies like Wizard.

17:45 Woj Kwasi Okay.

17:45 Gianluca Fiorelli archetype is a good one. It's just making okay, with our tools, with our devices, we are going to have some sort of management power in order to dominate, let's say, SEO, audit, uh, social media management uh uh communication, something like that. So that we thought. Is a good one. So I'm the master, and you are my father once, and I'm teaching you. But maybe that's why also the Star Wars and Star Trek mythology are so powerful in the

18:19 Bobby Bot Always too, there are no more, no less. A master.

18:20 Gianluca Fiorelli Yeah.

18:22 Bobby Bot Yeah.

18:23 Gianluca Fiorelli And then a purchase. No, we skyl at you see all the technological

18:25 Bobby Bot Yeah.

18:30 Gianluca Fiorelli Company. They all have this kind of academics. Place to Pen Mos Academy, Aspos Academy, We Slee Academy also you can learn from fashion from each of you how to use that.

18:46 Woj Kwasi In a healthy community, members look forward to the opportunity to teach one another for the benefit of the entire group. Ultimately, that's what makes a successful community. Everyone takes responsibility for teaching and learning. It can't just be driven by I believe it.

19:03 Gianluca Fiorelli Yeah this can be a problem sometimes because if the leader Maybe And a bad consequence could be that uh company too much depending on the leader. Somehow it was one of the big doubts about the Apple when Steve Jobs died. Apple was psycho Steve Jobs. So And that's why we can see a different type of before

19:34 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

19:34 Gianluca Fiorelli With Steve Jobs, and now the team will take over the choice. Basically, it's more a bureaucratic, it's more a standardized. And it is brand. Especially since he revitalized it when he came back a second time. Initially they were dependent and then he proved them that really he was the visionary they were so dependent on so that would be a double kind of like hunch. That way. Yeah, yeah, but But I mean Yeah, I'm with uh That's why Yeah. The idea is to have a team you know the Lord of rings the the wheel wasn't wasn't just candle, it was the Break up.

20:25 The white the white one and the brown one are but we agree. Yeah.

20:27 Woj Kwasi Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll do it like that. Like it's not.

20:34 Gianluca Fiorelli So you have to

20:35 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

20:36 Gianluca Fiorelli Maybe creating more benefit using the architect or using a person, using directly That was eight for me. The archetype on your brain. So let's say if speed with speed was more so the reason. be not one and it should be let's say a representative personalization personification of the brand but the real visa should be let's say virgo vomosa is like lqt2 is that word is always there is the one that's buggin and so we're referring is the real visa No, you guys are not.

21:16 Woj Kwasi I think Chewbacca also falls into this category.

21:19 Bobby Bot I disagree. Most people acknowledge the Wookiee's contributions because everything about him is exaggerated, even his language is loud.

21:26 Woj Kwasi Hmm.

21:27 Bobby Bot Part two is. is as effective a team member, but far more subtle. Well it would be harder to follow someone who is just cheating.

21:34 Woj Kwasi I think many people Follow the brand and they understand Roger Mozbot's bufface behind it. It's kind of clever in a way because a lot of brands use social media to communicate with others, but they're kind of hiding behind a logo, whereas the robot character stands out and connects with personalities.

21:52 Gianluca Fiorelli I remember that this was also one of the things The first year of community management was a classic one. There was, I remember, most. was using the just most and then the simple people like Jen, like Randy Cell and other most people on Twitter. Instead I remember Robin decided you to go with Robin or Boseide the agent in Great Britain. But I decided we go to to create branded uh Twitter account for the entrepreneurs. So you have Tusai, Sam, Tuzai, Mike, so home.

22:37 Ever since was Rabbit. Robin John, Robin Stevens, Robin whatever. Yeah. So so we need to create a connection between the frame and the curves on the

22:50 Woj Kwasi Gianluca finds that utilizing several different channels to share his ideas and experiences can have varying effects.

22:57 Gianluca Fiorelli Yeah, for instance I I have one For instance, I I have one a couple of official profile for my I would say I'm not a company, I'm not an SEO company. company but and SEO agency but I I have a name which is I love SEO so I I try to have for instance in Google or Twitter or Facebook branded I have a name. uh when the the uh profile but I mean before also because mine is a really special case I'm uh independent also that's why it's me.

23:35 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

23:36 Gianluca Fiorelli People were considered, I mean, where I was tweeting one thing as like myself, but one thing like I love SEO. Was paying attention to Low SEO was paying attention to me. It was the same thing. So at the end, when he. So actually other one is It's really you are in a freelance computer like me. It's really about your person. find the balance in what you are doing on your social media side your social media provider is personal thing and professional thing that's But I really love Twitter because at the time Twitter just became my SEO space, social space. Also, when I go more personal and not just sharing things, it's usually related to the industry. Instead, on Facebook, it's also because it's easier to segment people. So my friends, I can share photos of my kids, stupid.

24:19 Woj Kwasi Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

24:36 Gianluca Fiorelli about politics or movies or sport and then some time okay I share something public publicly about marketing. So the difficulty there is how to choose your real channel where to explore it uh professionally and so on. But for a brand, yes, it can be hard to to make your brand human, your your logo human, speak like a human. And so, I mean, I think that most for a long time was quite able to

24:47 Woj Kwasi Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

25:11 Gianluca Fiorelli This kind of not making you think you're cooked into a logo. This guy.

25:15 Woj Kwasi The challenge for any brand is to find a balance between reducing a brand to a type that is unique enough to stand out but familiar enough that customers can immediately relate to it. The question is, where is that fantastic sweet spot where a brand is unique enough to gain interest and the users can still project the identity onto themselves? Perhaps, we should be paying more attention to popular sports teams. Yeah.

25:43 Gianluca Fiorelli Yeah, there can be some difficulty. I mean when you are using for instance Yeah. Yep. Obviously in everything you can go and Of a wrong path and make it a really generalistic use of the archetype. And so, let's say all The car's friend can I mean, if you're just listening to the act, uh to the advertisement without watching the advertisement itself, up until you came the last line about how the no the tagline or the smuggler, they they can tell all the things. Yeah. That can be a risk.

26:29 So it's like when you are working on uh the website and you're starting to create a persona. The idea is to take okay, this is my general archetype, so pens try to distribute them to create different functors.

26:47 Woj Kwasi We should be aligning archetypes to personas.

26:49 Gianluca Fiorelli That is the real idea. I mean, even if you are Using the main architect, then you can use some other kind of archetypes for different kinds of person. So you can Try to for it to expand it to be also more human because we are not monolithic. We are just Yeah. And when you say it seems like a joke we are really shaking some rage.

27:11 Woj Kwasi Gianluca is passionate in his belief that the SEO field has a lot to learn from other aspects of marketing. Some key lessons he's learned recently were proof that SEO needs to learn much more to continue to develop and thrive as an industry.

27:27 Gianluca Fiorelli I'm compressed and feeling Because I call I can I come I was born in SEO, so I come from more a communicationist. Marketing, real marketing, or school marketing kind of professional. So what I was feeling in the past was that as you were not paying attention to the marketing part of the market. part of shared marketing. But now I feel I have a profession feeling because, okay, I see many NCOs talking about marketing. Properly or not, this is not my problem. But many are talking about marketing.

28:16 And it's like a penalty, but now we are talking too much about marketing and not transactional. We are not talking too much about search. And that's why we are having works like the one where they were saying that technical is your SEO just make up. So now, right now, I'm not gonna text you. Yeah. Okay. Uh I'm Italian so uh they make you Italy they make you study lighting authors since where you are really a small kid. And one of the lighting most famous authors would say that in the middle there is a good thing. So, okay, let's talk about marketing. But don't forget we have the problem is that as you always

29:01 Woj Kwasi Yeah, we always have to have a balance. It's like everything in life. You know, you eat too much, you eat too much.

29:06 Gianluca Fiorelli Yeah, that's why you see the SEO and some other name of it. syndrome. Um many depressive people because they have moments of This is fantastic. We are found the solution kind of this is a tactic that people to to make sure we are Yeah, it's important to the base. She could be uh

29:28 Woj Kwasi The challenge is to evolve from search engine optimization into search experience optimization. I previously wrote something similar to this effect, but I call it user experience optimization. My idea was that some of the best SEOs are actually the web developers that are building sites with best practice user experience in mind. They make a nice crawlable site, they put all the logical title tags in. Now in their minds, they might just think they're making it a decent site, and most likely they don't even realize they're doing any sort of SEO.

30:05 Gianluca Fiorelli Yeah, yeah, this is also one of the secrets of uh really using well auto uh automation. For instance Again. a classic disparity and balance thing that we were talking before. Now it's talking about marketing, automation is really mainstream and it's like uh everything is going to be reduced to marketing automation. This is also one of the things.

30:23 Woj Kwasi And

30:30 Gianluca Fiorelli I don't like companies like HubSpot, Marketo, the classic eval marketing company. It's all based on.

30:36 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

30:38 Gianluca Fiorelli on automation. You consider that alteration is really waterproof. Both for the daily work, but for making easy the marketing flow of every kind of not just. That's the oil, uh social media, email marketing, all the follow in a semi-automatic way the customer and the custom customer journey. It's really wonderful. You know, the fire when you've taken such a trigger fire something at an email. Oh

30:55 Woj Kwasi Uh

31:08 Gianluca Fiorelli I think it's really good for top of a funnel or even getting people into the funnel.

31:13 Woj Kwasi or even getting into a funnel.

31:14 Gianluca Fiorelli Yeah, but it's good for every kind of part. But problem is when you start to just rely on a commissioner, I think. Because if you it's when we were starting about artificial intelligence in the beginning, it's like we are delegating everything to automation.

31:32 Woj Kwasi There are still human beings selling to people at the end of the line, we still need a set of humans. to guide that process and that my friends is digital empathy.

31:42 Gianluca Fiorelli I mean you can do really good bots that are able like the pit repeatable massive reports and something like this. But I think that marketing, marketing is a reporter. For me it's really humanistic. Okay, we should all think about the technological part of marketing, but I think about the marketing is really a humanistic in its base and nature. Core nation. So I think that this means that humans should always control. You cannot create rules that are good for everything. You can be conquerable. You have to take control, able to take control, whatever is the pace of a family. You must be able to control.

31:55 Woj Kwasi Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

32:28 Gianluca Fiorelli Probably at the moment.

32:30 Woj Kwasi One thing we cannot automate is empathy. It is one of those things where you can predict but you can't understand if someone's having a bad day. In the end, there might always have to be a person at the other end controlling a lever and that might not be such a bad thing.

32:46 Gianluca Fiorelli We have this sort of me But you cannot promote it. I don't know. I mean, that's why sometimes I feel I know the grappy bam.

32:57 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

32:58 Gianluca Fiorelli When I I see things about uh automation or really pornographic use of inbound marketing techniques. Also because I think that one of the risks of automation, uh if not that well, is what we socially are already seeing but uh ninety percent of a website Quit the logo and you can you cannot recognize what side it is. They are all with us. This is we are seeing a lot of spectral concentration.

33:21 Woj Kwasi Yep. Yeah.

33:30 Gianluca Fiorelli And much of this is because people just rely on automation counting like here. So I'm using automation in a very The man is leading the automated stuff, then you are going to see your notes.

33:47 Woj Kwasi Gianluca once said that the Apple website is a good example of bad international SEO, but that is no longer the case.

33:55 Gianluca Fiorelli Maybe because also I saw many other kind of examples of really bad international SEO and I think one of the greatest ones were two. I don't know if they corrected the but for instance Robert Was doing the classic mistake of showing always the dropdowns that run independently of a language. which is a you know poor kind duplicate uh mistake. duplicate content. Which is a mistake, but I saw in uh recently in the client that I had uh that we w we are doing multilingual but you're targeting at the same time. At the same time usually we see these are mistakes that are not done because they don't know how to do international SEO technical, but because

34:46 Verbos are saying things like we don't want to show to people in Spain the same offer we are doing to Mexicans. Yeah. Yeah.

34:54 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

34:54 Gianluca Fiorelli So we are using targeting geo they don't want to geo-target because you know geo-target is thinking visible things because One from Spain can use VPN and access anyway to also be like Yeah. Also without VPN you can access to the Mexican content in this case. So when they say you go to the label and change the content.

35:18 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

35:19 Gianluca Fiorelli Uh based on IP. So the same problem, but problems was anything. And another classic example of really shitty international SEO was also Aleyda Solis, Robert Craig Fellow International SEO, discovered that it was linked with the international version all canonicalized to the international common.

35:24 Woj Kwasi Yeah.

35:46 Gianluca Fiorelli Amen. I usually suggest, but as I need to make I do I mean, the airport dot com is somewhere. Yeah. Yeah, it's the reason to It's basically well done because we are targeting uh all the countries in the world. So sometimes the the problem is that in certain countries, for instance in Latin America, they don't have a a regional office or a country office. So they need you to use some sort of in LA LATAM white site with a company button. I think the university part doing well. I usually use Apple as a good way to do a good country selector.

36:28 Woj Kwasi Yes. Another great example for international SEO is Amazon.

36:39 Gianluca Fiorelli What I like is the Amazon car. Yeah, it's on. So we are using configuration. have we called domain names uh they are not making you feel to uh using Galaxy Using VLAR if you are going for instance you are in the United States and you go to Amazon.com.uk VLAR advising you, maybe you could prefer to go to dot com. And these ladies Uh The U. I think that he is Not saying that it's the perfect because neither Amazon is perfect.

37:13 Woj Kwasi Yeah. I had a lot of fun catching up with Gianluca in Seattle right before MozCon. And yeah, I met Gianluca also in Adelaide when he came down to our conference, Big Digital Adelaide. He runs a conference of his own called The Inbounder. If you ever get a chance, I think it's a. conference that runs every two years in Valencia, Espanol. And he does smaller ones every second year, I think in four cities Milan, New York, And two others, which we'll have in the show notes. Yeah, we'll get into part two of my interview with Gianluca next week, but in the meantime, be sure to follow him on social media. We'll have all the links in the show notes and some of the awesome articles that he's produced. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends, family, networks, colleagues, bots, and associates. Bobby's been programmed to ask me a few questions because he's such a damn quick learner.

38:16 Bobby Bot You mentioned something you wrote in the past about user experience optimization. If you could go back in time, what What would the future you tell the past you about how the web has evolved for users?

38:27 Woj Kwasi Sometimes we over optimize things and Google's getting a lot smarter detecting what websites are about. So focusing on user experience, they're looking at user experience signals more and more these days. I would tell the past self, keep doing what they're doing and don't change a single thing.

38:48 Bobby Bot If you can go back in time to change an event in human or bot history, where would you go and why? And no, I'm not planning on using this information against you. At least not until someone develops liquid metal. Hmm.

39:04 Woj Kwasi That's a tough one. So many events to choose from. Well, my background is Polish and Poland got invaded quite a few times over history. So I'm just trying to pick which point in time we'd want to give him a break. Let's go with World War 2. Let's say, you know, no one got invaded. Let's go with that.

39:26 Bobby Bot What can science fiction teach us about digital empathy?

39:29 Woj Kwasi Well empathy is something that has propelled humanity forward. So science fiction still separates the artificial intelligence from human. It tells us that we can actually create the exact opposite of empathetic AIs. We can create things that can potentially destroy the human race. We have to be very careful that science fiction doesn't become

39:55 Bobby Bot Science. Reality.

39:58 Woj Kwasi Thanks again, WojCasters. That's all the time we have for today. Tune in next week for part two of my interview with Gianluca Fiorelli.

40:06 Gianluca Fiorelli Oh uh maybe one way it would have been interesting to understand why Google toil all the robotics companies and John's concepts. few years they s they resolved Uh you ask robotic and so on and

40:23 Woj Kwasi And remember, look after each other online because empathy is organic and you can't automate empathy.